Wikipédia-vita:Válaszeszköz

Commons

Ennek bizonyos funkcióit a Commons már évek óta tudja, például törlésre jelölésnél, copyviózásnál. Hungarikusz Firkász ^{Ide írkássz!} 2020. május 26., 00:21 (CEST)

Hibajelzés

Akela vitalapján valamiért nem működik. Azt írja, hogy „Érvénytelen válasz a szervertől.” Kipróbáltam (mentés nélkül) más szerkesztők vitalapján is, ott nem volt hibajelzés. Hungarikusz Firkász ^{Ide írkássz!} 2020. május 26., 00:38 (CEST)

@Hungarikusz Firkász: A jobboldalon fent található naptárral veszik össze – az okát nem tudom. Ha Akela kivenné onnan a naptárt, működne. --Pallerti^{the cave of Caerbannog} 2020. május 26., 00:57 (CEST)

Holnap jelzem a problémát a fejlesztőknek, de most elmegyek aludni. Viszont elgondolkodtam, hogy nem jobb-e itt gyűjteni az észrevételeket, mint a másik, konzultációs lapon. Mivel a címke úgyis ide fogja irányítani az érdeklődőket, inkább ez a logikus hely. Samat ^{üzenetrögzítő} 2020. május 26., 01:01 (CEST)

Én a másik helyről nem tudtam, ezért írtam ide. Hungarikusz Firkász ^{Ide írkássz!} 2020. május 26., 01:10 (CEST)

Újabb észrevétel, hogy a WT-lapon sem tudtam használni. Ott ezt írta ki: „Erre a hozzászólásra nem lehet válaszolni ezzel az eszközzel. Próbáld a teljes lapot szerkeszteni.” – Nem tudom, hogy ez hiba-e, ezért neveztem észrevételnek. Hungarikusz Firkász ^{Ide írkássz!} 2020. május 27., 13:40 (CEST)

Quick check

Is version 2.0 good enough? The devs ask us whether the visual mode is satisfactory. I think it is satisfactory, but your opinion is more important. We have this week to decide. If it is good, then next Monday (15 June) they will put it in the regular wikitech:deployment train, and "version 2.0" will be turned on next Thursday (18 June) for everyone who already has the Beta Feature enabled.

You can test it on this page with this link: https://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipédia-vita:Válaszeszköz?dtvisual=1 You might need to switch to the visual mode to see what's new.

So: Are there any significant problems? Is there anything you need, before the visual mode is available to you all the time, without having to type ?dtvisual=1 each time? (Please ping me, or "@ me" in the new visual mode.) Thank you, Whatamidoing (WMF) ^vita 2020. június 9., 02:23 (CEST)

Usefulness

Peter and I have been looking at the Reply tool's numbers, and here's what we see:

• About 50 people used it at least once here at the Hungarian Wikipedia.
• Most editors who used the Reply tool used it repeatedly. 73% used it more than once at huwiki.
• Most people who used the Reply tool used it on multiple days. 68% used it on more than one day at huwiki. (This number includes editors who have only edited on one day so far, so we would never expect it to be 100%.)

From the "numbers" side, this looks like a tool that's fairly effective. From my own personal experience, I'm happy with it. What I want to know is whether you think this would be helpful overall to the huwiki community at this point, or if you'd rather wait longer. If you want it turned on for everyone, then I'll ask the team to do that. (Of course anyone could opt out in Special:Preferences, if they didn't want it.) If you don't, then I would like to know what else the team should do (if anything) to make it more appropriate for huwiki.

(Samat, Tacsipacsi, Pasztilla, anyone else: would you please make sure that editors know about my question, and translate this note if you think it would be helpful?) Whatamidoing (WMF) ^vita 2020. július 20., 21:59 (CEST)

@Whatamidoing (WMF): I like this feature and I think it would be good for newcomers as well. One minor bug I almost reported several times, but never actually, is that it sometimes conflicts with wikEdDiff (“Fejlettebb lapváltozat-összehasonlító” in Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets), which is used by 76 active users, in addition to the 47 active users using wikEd itself. Can you look into it? Thanks in advance, —Tacsipacsi ^vita 2020. július 20., 22:37 (CEST)

Tacsipacsi, please tell me more about this. How do you trigger the bug? Whatamidoing (WMF) ^vita 2020. július 21., 03:01 (CEST)

@Whatamidoing (WMF): Just by clicking the usual [reply] button, if I’m unlucky. If I’m lucky, it works with the very same URL. wikEdDiff’s distinctive feature is (in addition to its own diff engine) that it turns the [[]] and {{}} codes in the normal MediaWiki diff into links. (I use wikEdDiff only, never the “large” wikEd, but I assume the same goes for both.) My best guess is that things go wrong when wikEdDiff loads faster than DT, so when DT parses the page, it finds well-formed signatures—including user page links and timestamps—in the diff view as well, not only in the actual page content, and gets confused by the same signature appearing twice; the [reply] link only works with the first occurrance (i.e. in the diff), clicking the second (the one in the actual page content) results in a warning message

Could not find the comment you're replying to on the page. It might have been deleted or moved to another page. Please reload the page and try again.

Tacsipacsi ^vita 2020. július 22., 00:25 (CEST)

I've filed it as phab:T258815. Feel free to comment there or to edit the description. Whatamidoing (WMF) ^vita 2020. július 24., 20:06 (CEST)

@Whatamidoing (WMF): thank you! I will make a quick poll asking other editors about your question. (Accidently, I answered you with clicking the edit link instead of the reply link. We need some time become used to the new tool :)) Samat ^{üzenetrögzítő} 2020. július 20., 22:58 (CEST)

Quick poll. The statistics are interesting, but I have the feeling, that the thresholds are too low. It shows, that there are about 50 editors on the Hungarian Wikipedia, who is interested in new beta features, and about 35 editors tried it at least twice (or with other words second time after the first one). I understand that the team would like to show higher percentages of the usage, but it would give a more realistic picture if we could see how many editors (for the beta phase, later how many percentage of the active editors) use it (for example) more than 50% on the discussion pages or how many editors opt out after tried it. It makes probably more sense to check these numbers after it will be the default tool and more editor use it. Samat ^{üzenetrögzítő} 2020. július 21., 22:58 (CEST)

You can't use it for all talk page edits, so I'm not sure what the "correct" percentage is. I've used it at enwiki for about 50% of my talk-page and user-talk page edits, and I think I'm using it at every opportunity. So 50% might be the highest reasonable percentage (for a highly active editor). It will be lower if you spend a lot of time starting discussions, rather than joining an existing discussion. Whatamidoing (WMF) ^vita 2020. július 23., 22:07 (CEST)

Samat, do you expect anyone else to comment at Wikipédia:Kocsmafal (javaslatok)#Válaszeszköz bevezetése? Whatamidoing (WMF) ^vita 2020. július 30., 21:53 (CEST)

@Whatamidoing (WMF) sorry, I haven't seen your question. No, I don't think so. Meanwhile the topic was moved to the archive, therefore it is very unlikely. I propose to go ahead with to change! Kind regards, Samat ^{üzenetrögzítő} 2020. augusztus 6., 21:36 (CEST)

I'll get you on the list. I don't know what the date will be – later this month? They have to fix phab:T259855 first. Whatamidoing (WMF) ^vita 2020. augusztus 7., 19:07 (CEST)

According to the ticket, T259855’s bug should no longer happen. Let’s see if it’s really worked around. – Tacsipacsi ^vita 2020. augusztus 7., 22:12 (CEST)

Thank you, @Tacsipacsi for reporting the bug. It should work fine again. (Let's see! :)) Samat ^{üzenetrögzítő} 2020. augusztus 10., 23:03 (CEST)

Aláírás előtagja

A válaszeszköz jelenleg egyetlen szóköztől eltekintve semmit nem tesz alapértelmezetten az aláírás elé. Most vettem észre, hogy június eleje óta (phab:T249861) ez testreszabható a MediaWiki:discussiontools-signature-prefix segítségével. Én szívem szerint módosítanám a hagyományos szerkesztő aláírásgombja (MediaWiki:sig-text) által is használt szóköz–gondolatjel–nem törhető szóköz kombinációra. Van valakinek ellenvetése? (A Phabricator-feladathoz Tgr szólt hozzá, de természetesen bárki másnak a véleményét is szívesen látom.) – Tacsipacsi ^vita 2020. augusztus 10., 13:52 (CEST)

API

Samat and others:

They hope to try a new mw:API later this week. If it works, then we may be able to turn on the Reply tool for everyone next week. It can't happen until the new API is working. Whatamidoing (WMF) ^vita 2020. augusztus 31., 20:38 (CEST)

Is all well?

The Reply tool has been available for everyone for about a week. Szerkesztő:Samat, Szerkesztő:Tacsipacsi, Szerkesztő:Pasztilla, is everything okay? I think use has doubled since the tool was released to everyone. Whatamidoing (WMF) ^vita 2020. szeptember 30., 18:42 (CEST)

Looks fine. I announced the change now (better later than never). The setting should be translated in the personal preferences, and it links now to MediaWiki where there is no Hungarian version yet (instead of the little bit outdated, but local page). I will try to do the translation work somewhen next week. Samat ^{üzenetrögzítő} 2020. szeptember 30., 22:09 (CEST)

@Whatamidoing (WMF): I haven’t found any particular issues, although I haven’t dug into the logs/recent changes to hunt for them. Maybe this answer by myself, which removed some whitespace from a previous answer, which was also left with the reply tool (by the way, that previous answer was probably the very first DT reply written by a junior contributor on huwiki!).

@Samat: The translation is ready and should go live today (i.e. Thursday) in the afternoon or the evening (depending on in which timeslot this week’s MediaWiki arrives). The translated message still links to Meta, but I think the non-Meta override should happen locally. (By the way, I already announced the change on WP:KFE two weeks ago. Maybe it was not the best place, but at least I reached many people.) —Tacsipacsi ^vita 2020. október 1., 01:22 (CEST)

…or may not the translation go live; the MediaWiki train is currently rolled back. :( —Tacsipacsi ^vita 2020. október 1., 03:20 (CEST)

https://dtcheck.toolforge.org/dtcheck-2020-10-01.html suggests that we're not seeing too many bad diffs.

I thought that importing translations had its own schedule (separate from the usual weekly train), but I'm not sure about that. Whatamidoing (WMF) ^vita 2020. október 1., 20:32 (CEST)

Újmegbeszélés-eszköz tesztelése

Aki látja, adja át! – Tacsipacsi ^vita 2020. október 30., 21:37 (CET)

New Discussion tool tomorrow

Some editors asked for a tool similar to the Reply tool, but to start a ==New discussion==.

If all goes well, the mw:Talk pages project/New discussion Beta Feature will appear here around 19:00–20:00 UTC tomorrow.

The Beta Feature should be turned OFF for most editors. It should (I hope!) be turned ON for people who turned on the Reply tool's Beta Feature (=not the regular preference) last summer. If there are problems, please ping me. Whatamidoing (WMF) ^vita 2021. február 17., 19:07 (CET)

The Editing team says that if you're satisfied with this, it can be turned on for everyone. Please let me know what you think. Whatamidoing (WMF) ^vita 2021. július 1., 19:40 (CEST)

@Whatamidoing (WMF): The people who commented in the discussion so far don’t seem to be very supportive, but mostly because of concrete issues. I found the following Phabricator tickets that match their requests:

• phab:T249072 – mentioned by three people
• phab:T276609 – implicitly mentioned by two people
• phab:T270788 – mentioned by one person, but it’s already overdue, since it was for the beta feature start
• phab:T278190 – mentioned by one person (its VisualEditor counterpart has just arrived with the MediaWiki train two weeks ago, so it’s hopefully the right time to work on this)

I hope these tasks can be done soon, and people will be happy enough to support making this feature opt-out. —Tacsipacsi ^vita 2021. július 6., 02:23 (CEST)

Thanks for making this list. It's really helpful. It may take a while to make decisions about some of these tasks (except the toolbar for wikitext source mode, which should happen in the coming weeks). Whatamidoing (WMF) ^vita 2021. július 10., 05:02 (CEST)

Stopping by to "+1" what @Whatamidoing (WMF) mentioned above: thank you for compiling this list of issues, @Tacsipacsi. Having easy access to the specific issues people are concerned about makes our job of addressing them more straightforward. PPelberg (WMF) ^vita 2021. július 26., 21:58 (CEST)

@Tacsipacsi, about special characters, the dev said not to use this code, but it's working for me ;-). That code might be handy if you want to do a little testing before they deploy the real version. Whatamidoing (WMF) ^vita 2021. július 26., 22:45 (CEST)

@Whatamidoing (WMF): Thanks, but I’ve already tested a bit on patchdemo. I don’t think I’ll use this feature a lot, though, as I rather remember the Unicode codepoint of the “curly” quotation marks than move my hand from the keyboard to the touchpad to use the special character selector. (But I do support this feature; I know most editors don’t want to remember random four-digit hexadecimal numbers, or just aren’t lucky enough to have a Linux computer, where Unicode endpoints can be entered directly. 🙂) —Tacsipacsi ^vita 2021. július 26., 22:57 (CEST)

"aren’t lucky enough" LOL Samat ^{üzenetrögzítő} 2021. július 26., 23:07 (CEST)

;-) Samat ^{üzenetrögzítő} 2021. július 26., 23:02 (CEST)

But I could not manage to use the js above. It does not appear for me. (I am not sure if it the same tool, but I tried on patchdemo earlier as well.) Samat ^{üzenetrögzítő} 2021. július 26., 23:10 (CEST)

I think it's the same, but the "Often used" section varies per wiki.

You only have a global.js at Meta-Wiki. On all the others, the code belongs in your common.js (or skin-specific pages, like User:Samat/vector.js). Whatamidoing (WMF) ^vita 2021. július 27., 07:43 (CEST)

@Whatamidoing (WMF): Yes, the patchdemo version is much weirder than the huwiki one. 🙂 (I set it up to test how templates work in DiscussionTools’ special character toolbar—they seem to be fine in in source mode, but get inserted as raw wikitext and thus get nowiki’d in visual mode.) —Tacsipacsi ^vita 2021. július 27., 15:20 (CEST)

New option for wikitext source

@Samat, @Tacsipacsi, @Pasztilla:

There is a new toolbar for the wikitext 'source' mode. To try it, go to the end of Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing and tick the box for "Szerkesztőeszköztár engedélyezése forrásmódban" Once you have it enabled, try @ to ping someone and either ⌘K (Macs) or Ctrl-K (everyone else) to make a link. I hope that you will like it. :-) Whatamidoing (WMF) ^vita 2021. május 12., 21:26 (CEST)

@Whatamidoing (WMF) I missed your message in May, but I tried the option now. I don't know why is it still experimental (and not part of the tool by default), I missed it earlier already :) Thanks! Samat ^{üzenetrögzítő} 2021. július 26., 22:07 (CEST)

@Samat, I think you can expect this "soon". It's already been announced, so it's just a question of getting the config patch written and deployed. Whatamidoing (WMF) ^vita 2021. július 26., 22:44 (CEST)

Great news, thank you :) Samat ^{üzenetrögzítő} 2021. július 26., 22:46 (CEST)

New appearance on the way

If (only if) you have the Beta Feature enabled, you should see a new appearance soon. You can see it now at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User_talk:Whatamidoing_(WMF)?useskin=vector It adds information at the top of each ==Section==, like this:

Latest comment: 2 months ago | 4 comments | 2 people in discussion

If you don't like it, you can turn off "Show discussion activity" in Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing-discussion. Whatamidoing (WMF) ^vita 2022. július 20., 20:07 (CEST)

@Samat, @Tacsipacsi, Hungarikusz Firkász and others:

The next change will add a line at the top of the page. For this page, it currently says:

Latest comment: 4 months ago by Whatamidoing (WMF) in topic New appearance on the way

It will update when I post this comment. You can see the new version at this link: https://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia-vita:V%C3%A1laszeszk%C3%B6z?dtenable=1 The goal is to make it easy to see if the page is active, without having to scroll all the way to the end of the page.

The other subtle change will turn "Wikipédia-vita:Válaszeszköz" into "Wikipédia-vita: Válaszeszköz". (This is a fake space; when you copy it, it still says Wikipédia-vita:Válaszeszköz with no space.) This helps everyone read the page title, but it is more important for languages like French, because it can be configured to say "Wikipédia-vita : Válaszeszköz" (the French style of punctuation). I don't speak Hungarian, but I looked at a few Featured Articles, and the punctuation seems to be the same as English. In that case, you don't need to do anything. Whatamidoing (WMF) ^vita 2022. december 12., 22:27 (CET)

I forgot to add: This might happen on Monday, 19 December. Whatamidoing (WMF) ^vita 2022. december 12., 22:29 (CET)

@Whatamidoing (WMF): You mean it will be available on this very page (namespace 5), not only in namespaces 1 (article talk) and 3 (user talk)? As far as I know, it’s not yet the case, and I don’t know about any plans to change it by next week.

By the way, cheat sheet: translatewiki:Special:Translations/MediaWiki:colon-separator – apart from French, only Arpitan and Occitan seem to have the extra space. (I could find thin spaces before colons in Hungarian books published as recently as 40 years ago, but they seem to have disappeared some time in the 80s-90s, maybe due to typesetting now being done on computer, which originates from the US.) —Tacsipacsi ^vita 2022. december 13., 02:49 (CET)

@Tacsipacsi, as far as I know, @PPelberg (WMF) is not planning to expand it beyond namespaces 1 and 3. However, with the ?dtenable=1 trick, you can see it on this page today. Whatamidoing (WMF) ^vita 2022. december 13., 03:43 (CET)

Update: They turned it on for all talk namespaces (e.g., Wikipedia_talk:, Template_talk:). It's still not available in Wikipedia: or other namespaces where discussions happen. That work will be tracked in phab:T251653. Whatamidoing (WMF) ^vita 2023. február 1., 17:41 (CET)

Update: phab:T317907 is scheduled for next week. Whatamidoing (WMF) ^vita 2023. január 12., 19:56 (CET)